war thunder forum germany suffers

When I play american tanks I always use the .50s to take out barrels, it's really effective as long as your enemy has a gun calibre less than 100mm. - If it is a sufficiently big map he will just cap before you even get to see the cap point. Having the Panther 2 in game used to alleviate this problem and give 6.7 germany a solid medium tank to rely on, but now that it's removed it's a lot harder to play these close range maps. Other options like FW's with 1000kg bomb drops are just too bad in a fighter role, as well as the Me 262 Pulkzerstrer. Add the EBR 1954 Version in the Tech tree, add the French Tiger 1 'Bretagne', add the French stabilised gun variant of the AMX-10RC and AMX-30 in the main tech tree . More like genre savvy actuallyI know the score. 2. I'm talking about the teams steamsad More to the point, your initial comment is THE biggest disconnect from reality that I've read in LONG time. If the team melts, the team melts. Even more so Germany can not pair with britain, which means only one side will be receiving the death by thousand stabilized needles.USA brings a ton of HEATFS that chew through the Tiger II UPF. While German vehicles cannot quite match others vehicles in a drag race, this does not mean German vehicles are bad. On the other hand, allied planes get the bomb loads because their cannons/mgs are less effective against German meds and heavies. (small note, i forgot the T__ has cast armor, it's frontal protection is actually 190mm at it's weakest. On the afternoon of 21 November 1995, Grant suffered a fatal heart attack while driving to his home at Eastbourne with his son Warren. As for the Bf 110G, it is superb--it's only fault is that it's ranked as a Tier II rather than a Tier III. The cas exists but people act like fighters dont exist in the German tree that can do as the same thing. And T topically blow up now if you go through the turret. there are people who will likely attack you for not buying into the Germany suffers claims. its guncan flank you with a shell from across the map, Same as the above, never send a tank to do a shell's work. T__ turret has double layered spots where it goes as high as 300mm, angled cheeks, and is straight up thicker even at it's weakest points. This puts Germany in a lose/lose position when choosing their plane to call in. And the T series has a thick turret but the tiger 2 has a better hull. Ugh. Which means all you need to do is spot him first, then he's basically done for. Many German players will often hang back and camp (which can be good, if done in moderation--Germany gets above average exchange rates this way) but critically, problems arise when these players never do move up. All in all, these things boil down to the sort of trade offs that are to be expected. If anything i insist you grind out to the T34 play about 100 games you'll tend to find that the two are rather close to compare. 3. Eh, the significance of this is overstated. With a particular fixation on the M18, German players often complain about German vehicles and how they lack the mobility of their Allied opponents. Of course the thick armor and good gun can be an advantage. Are king tigers unplayable? Maybe I have bad luck with the 88 but lately (and I mean just this last patch) I've had a lot of 88s penetrate the T34 and just get absorbed by the breech without exploding. Kingtigers are best tanks for german tree even if it has nerf. Allied tanks have a thinner top armor in general than the German and Soviet tanks, which makes a high pen round not a necessary feature to get kills from the air. I tested you 50 cal theory and it can be done but it takes so many rounds and reloads its not an arguing point at all. This is still a pretty hard shot to hit as there are still trolly double thick parts and the breech often absorbs 88s without them having time to fuse, resulting in no crew deaths). The most disappointing part is that the 7.92s seem to always be under performing and relative to the 13mms too. T92, T114 are the most common culprits but yes there are more. Fires, backs up to cover from return fire etc, flanks if need be. I don't have too much preference on maps as a matter of range. I almost never see the Swedish Centurion, no matter playing on or against British team. When you do see them, they won't make up 100% of the team composition and they won't even make up 100% of the UK composition since there is a chance for there to be Charioteers and Cent Mk 1s to be thrown into the mix. I will keep the scope of this topic to relate to BRs 1.0 to 7.0 in RB, with the primary emphasis being on 4.X-5.X. This works both ways, ifa potential target learns the maps thisscenario can be avoided. It's obvious which has the better hull where as its obvious who has the better turret. I "like" how you start out this topic with some kind of meme-theme, that there's nothing to it more than it being perceived as "suffering!" Is a panther really a good vehicle for flanking? Call me when it has the bombs and rockets just like the allies. As a person who has played multiple nations, I can again draw on my varied experience for insight on this matter. Threads 63 Messages 220. . Yes, with an M18 I am also eaily killed from the front due to lack of armor. Or if the hull is exposed, anywhere of the hull. Thus, links were forged between the crime of public nuisance and the tort of private nuisance at an early stage in the development of the common law. Selling Top German/UK Tank and Plane & US Top plane with many Premium. While an M18s speed might allow it to get to a point a few moments before a Panther would, the M18s lack of armor and less capable cannon burden it if something like a Panther arrives shortly thereafter. As a person who has played multiple nations, I can again draw on my varied experience for insight on this matter. Your observations are not a statistical fact or some sort of general trend setting. It's just that the slow/tall/heavy tanks are usually on the bad end with the current level design. Are there plans to move overpowered vehicles (like Xp-50 or Su-11) to a more reasonable br rating? I'd love to hear an in depth explanation of why you think that. Once he has spotted you, you are basically dead. The problem here is that Japan doesn't have a lot of players and thus meeting japanese aircraft is pretty rare in RB. sdkfz 123 panzerspahwagen ii luchs fast . And it is this knowledge that will the panther driver often stop from advancing beyond certain points on the map, because he thinks: " There is probably a M18 on the enemy team and based on my experience and knowledge of the map I know that beyong this point there is a high chance that the M18 is somewhere on the edge of the map behind a hill and is waiting till I leave my cover. Weaponry, Sohow exactly do I do that? While it is true that many people, with all sorts of involvement in other trees, play Germany it is also true that many of the people who play the German tree only play the German tech tree. Of course it does, but this is not the argument here. I bought the premium centurion to grind britain and rarely had this problem. The likes of P-47s and Fireflies can make multiple distinct strikes against armor before working to secure the skies of the battlefield. The Panthers' reverse situation is one that's not terribly extraordinary because poor reverse speed is a commonplace of many tanks--particularly those of the British. This trend follows most nations and Germany is no exception. (This topic will likely be flooded by people doing exactly this or otherwise trying to hijack the thread.). He can easily continue flank and pen King Tigers from the side. Penetration isn't everything and it's wrong to assume that a heavy tank should be mostly immune to everything they face of similiar or lower BR. Some people apparently prefer that Germany suffer rather than see the problems seriously talked about and dealt with--quite sad. None of this is specific to Germany or the Americans mind you. Easier to spot in open terrain and gives you enough time for an aimed shot? First of all the amount of smoke the projectile generates when it strikes a target is ridiculous. By Puma 50mm Panzergranate has pretty low post pen damage on higher tier tanks. And the T30 which has a 30 second reload on a 200mm round penetration is sad to say the least and in my opinion off that its worthy if 6.3 due to that fact but thats a different discussion. War Thunder trading. Frontally there are no easy weakspots. I don't feel I need assume such things as this is already quite relevant to my interests. Panthers has not too much problems in their brs. In a 1 on 1 I would just throw a dice and pick one possible option hoping that he will appear there? So you are saying that if weassume the classic map setup in Warthunder, where we have a cap point roughly in the middle of the map and the team starting on the opposite edges, the slower tank can win the game by camping after crossing only aquarter of the map? Manual Engine Control. By And 5.7 tanks can pen American tanks. It also blinds the enemy which is quite useful(or annoying, depending on which side you're on). The tracks make it immune to long 88 and actually work as spaced armor against HEAT. That ammo should not be stock! No he won't hide/wait in a fast boi,he'll drive to your side of the map to look for you if you keep him waiting. I wrote Panther II and T-44-100, which are the medium tanks of BR 6.7-7.0, actual competitors to the Cent 3. Sell, buy or trade War Thunder Items and Services here. Just look at the Tiger 1H how many Heavy Tanks at 5.3 can roll up to 45 almost 50Km/h. I have never had the tracks heat not go through the tracks so not sure where you get that I've sank so many games into T series and not once has that happened. This is of course a burden if you're in a CQC situation where the APDS will easily pen your frontal armor. These same players will often say that German vehicles lesser mobility means the Germans simply cannot compete with the more nimble Allied vehicles--ignoring Germanys other merits. I found German mobility fair as you already answered the Heavy amor and armament give them a huge advantage and if you play your cards right you can effectively cut off flanking routes to the enemy. Despite the complaints about Germany's WRs, they're not bad really. On paper there is no logical reason why Germany shouldn't be doing much better than these nations which have worse line ups and fight the same threats. Done. Oh definitely trade-offs are to be expected. Penetration analysis is bugged with AP and APDS. While the M18 can potentially be used for flanking regardless of tier--this is true of any vehicle--it is also a vehicle that can be wiped out even by lowly 1.0s. Download Free PDF View PDF. At 6.7 the US T series are much more survivable when it comes to being hit. Recently I got the MiG 19s and its just been soul draining bad because off missile spamming and almost constant uptears, so I try to go back to the MiG 15 and G.91 but they experience a similar problem. I'd certainly replace the Hs 129B-2/MK 103 if the Bf 110G was a Tier III vehicle. There are many, many more ways in which Germany is claimed to suffer--these are just a few that I chose to address for this first post. 4. You cant carry against so many players. Julius, a doctor supplement for ed friend of Horace, who is there a generic viagra or cialis accompanied Claudius Nero in his military expeditions. And I've found that the damage output for apds is lacking I've put many rounds through tanks and if theirs more one rankits a problem as the one shot isn't likely. Come on, seriously? 0 capable AA's, meanwhile germany is literally spoilt with choice. I can't even tell whether they even attempted to add the incendiary ammunition, like the phosphor round. The turret armor isn't much. Yes, but we should be discussing balance based on tanks that are actually in the tech tree. A serious discussion about Axis teams at tier 4 and why they seem to be consistently bad.PLAY WAR THUNDER FOR FREE AND GET 50GE FOR FREE: http://warthunder.. warrior412, February 10, 2020 in General & Upcoming, Germany has a p-47 just like the allies? Bad gun handling in the -5 degrees gun depression, only 24 deg/sec aced vs 40 degree/sec aced for most western MBTs, 7.1s reload, slower than 120mm which is 6.36 or 6 seconds. The m41 is a welcomed addition. So in short up until br 6.7 theres nothing much. And im asking how your angling it. Mobility is the aspect that most German vehicles are less focused on than their peers, but this is made up for by the Germans better firepower/armor than their peers. that I won't be able to catch if I miss (only to in best case scenario get about 2k sl from the kill)? Its not like I am proposing to ram the enemy. history projects. Also the air tech tree actually is borderline OP too. That's your personal preference. But the T34doesn't wreck anymore havok than a Tiger 2 h 10.5 does. I would just shoot breech, then driver/engine, and then if whatever I was shooting was still alive I would just wittle down it's last crew with the excellent reload and lolpen APDS. Background: I am a guy who plays all nation with Germany being my single most played nation. And if you talking about the swingfire it's not a good vehicle. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. For instance: in the M18's case, this is manifest in its far greater bounciness. Meanwhile the M18 will be sitting in the ambush or going around the cap into your back because he know that you will not dare to cap. This is why nobody takes anyone who believes in tygor syndrom seriously. As someone who has played all nations, I have had the opportunity to play with and against German tanks. The turret is ok, not the best, but gives the 76mm and 85mm some trouble. - Only usableTiger I is the 5.3 Tiger I. Noone does the same with panthers. An Panther however loses his main advantage of better armor. 7. And its mo different than tiger 2 players shaking their turret to get a bounce. Removing the Panther II made sense if the game was aiming for historical accuracy. Incorrect in so many levels. What about T95? Neither Soviets, Brits nor Ger vehicles have them, beside some prems or some advanced sub-types. If you spot him first and don't manage to kill him with the first spot you are dead even if he can't pen you from the front. Especially for such high brs. I am a german main (I know what a suprise) but since the Maus and E100 were captured you could give at least the Maus to other nations too I think. Never had issues we've all had our bounces that should have went through but didn't that isn't exclusive to a T series tank. I have a few plane kills in the KT SLA, which is even more funny as only the premium tank gets the AA roof mount. Sidenote: chuckling at all the silly "confused" reactions haters are giving. For anyone who has ever played War Thunder and certainly for those who have perused the forums, the line Germany suffers! is probably something youve heard before. While it is true that there were +1.0 uptiers some of the time, it was not perpetual as some people claim. There are many, many more ways in which Germany is claimed to suffer--these are just a few that I chose to address for this first post. The best editions of doctor oz supplement pills for ed Florus are Duker s, 2 vols. If an M18 is careening down a street and a Panther materializes at the end of it and takes a shotit's not going to be a good day for the M18. While I played my Germans at 5.7, uptiers beyond 6.0 were very rare. Get comfy and ambush them,you said it yourself he has five options give him a sixth one he forgot, two places they'll never look behind themselves or above themselves or I guess threeif you count beingfar away. In real life, German cats had a more advanced system/concept known as regenerative steering, this is vastly more energy efficient and especially useful for these heavy late wartanks, and other tanks after the war. Most fws and 109s dont turn poorly either and will out turn a p-47 rather easily as they are heavier. That is impossible, you need somewhat of a team. Or is it? panzer ii light tank military history. Eh, you can get the same effect with having a slow vehicle suddenly appear where no one expects it at a particular time, it also brings a more shock and awe effect as its victims try to fathem what they are looking at and how it gotthere, thegood times to be had Oh and by the way, many people do drive BT5s and M18 on high tiers because they are freaking fast and their guns can pen flanks of more modern tanks. The game is based around combined arms battles on air, land, and sea with vehicles from the Great War to today. The allegation is that because the Germans Tigers and Panthers cannot keep pace with the Americans M18s, the Russians T-34-85s and other like vehicles that the Germans simply cannot compete with these vehicles or the teams that use them. The entire team proceeds to die because there is no one to set up a lodgement because everyone wants to play their uber heavy and those who want to play light tanks end up using a LT that is completely ineffective against 90% of the targets. Stop placing artificial nerfs on German vehicles and weapons; Mk 103s should have the same accuracy as allied autocannons, Panther APCR should have the historical ~260mm of pen instead of the laughable 228mm of pen in-game, and so on. It takes about 0.5-1s to stop but experienced player can fire earlier - APHE just needs to hit center-mass of a Centurion to kill it. And I'll give you the T29 it was worthy of 7.0 but if your gonna sit here and argue the T34/30 are suddenly worthy of 7.0 you have a biased opinion. This pretty much says it all, and it describesa fundamental problem with ground RB: the fastesttanks with decent firepowerare the only vehicles in WT that can set up ambushes early game (which helps setting up ambushes mid and late game as well); slower TDs and tanks can't fulfill this role in WT even if they were designed specifically for this purpose and fulfilled it very successfully irl; the brawling maps which drastically cut down the range of engagementscombined with the "early game race" effectively prevents this. In tier III and IV gameplay bombs are not really needed to take out allied tanks. Whether a not a tank has the "better tools" is entirely up to user and how they'd like to use them. In an one on one battle with one cap point andrough, uneven terrain you will lose against the M18 in your panther 8 out of 10 times. Absolutely you're right on that point, but let's turn the tables here for some perspective. Because they know that there will be most probably a trap when they arrive at the cap point. An uptier will barely affect the performance of an M18. Canon CAS is quite strong if left unchecked. With this you will keep your RPM high and get moving fast. You can angle the T__ turret is what I was saying, which turns the flat 200mm into 240+mm pretty easily. Pretty much initiallybut when you do this often enough you'll start to see a pattern and this will narrow your choices downquite a bit and increase your chances of success, it can be slow sometimes but that's the nature of hunting. Its a fine argument, it fits into the"why would I drive over there to shoot them from 10 feet awaywhen I can sit here 1000+ meters away and kill them?" Last time I played my king tiger I shot the T34s barrel as that was the only spot I knew I could reliably disarm him, then he just took out my barrel with .50s and I got killed by one of his teammates. Which isn't as many as the P-47 you still get access to the same 1,000 pounder and 500 pounder it gets just not at once. Isn't it a bit dishonest to completely "forget" to bring out the more negative aspects of the panther? warrior412, February 10, 2020 in General & Upcoming. (and enjoy the performance of APCR). Excellent points; and to add to that is the long-standing issue of the Mk 103 cannon nerf that renders a whole host of effective cannon CAS utterly useless. Denying that problem only makes it worse. Also Centurions have a 2-plane stabilizer that for some reason acts like it's from 2020, which lets you use hard cover or play behind a hill, only popping your turret out briefly to take easy shots. I've said that I'm looking at things that are perceived as suffering but aren't in the interest of finding and isolating the true examples for sake of fixing these things. The issue is that T__ are better than every heavy in game all the way up until the IS-3, and their BR should reflect that. They are the equivalent to the surge of M22s that the allies occasionally see when some overly loud youtuber decides to make a video about "haha ebic meme tank"causing an influx. If you turn it to the side you just shoot the huge side of the turret. Thats why you will often see lack of initiative and decisiveness on German teams. There are major gaps in all the TTs that need to be addressed. While light vehicles can rush about in cities, they're balanced in the cities by the same hard cover they benefit from. And here comes the issue with uptiers. In an uptier when being met by a T54. that's it. I just read this post and simply had to react because you draw all the wrong conclusions. Tried to flank with the Tortoise? Which he can only do if he knows where you are, you can't flank what you can't see now can you. While the M18 can potentially be used for flanking regardless of tier--this is true of any vehicle--it is also a vehicle that can be wiped out even by lowly 1.0s. Pretty unfair that almost all US tanks have those AA HMGs. 4. Apds still has a low damage output. AMX-13 GETS UPTIERED 6.7? While German vehicles cannot quite match others vehicles in a drag race, this does not mean German vehicles are bad. This has been an universal issue for all the nations since they have switched to the formula instead of historical documents, a reasoning which I can somewhat understand. I can again draw on my varied experience for insight on this matter better tools '' is entirely to! The amount of smoke the projectile generates when it comes to being hit of initiative and decisiveness on teams. Usabletiger I is the 5.3 Tiger I. Noone does the same hard cover they benefit from exists... So in short up until br 6.7 theres nothing much the skies of the battlefield of... Or the Americans mind you all nation with Germany being my single most played.. Amount of smoke the projectile generates when it comes to being hit generates when it comes to being hit have. But let 's turn the tables here for some perspective situation where the APDS will easily your! Best, but gives the 76mm and 85mm some trouble nor Ger vehicles have them, beside some prems some! Tiger 2 h 10.5 does medium tanks of br 6.7-7.0, actual competitors the! German tree that can do as the same hard cover they benefit from manifest in its far bounciness. Actually in the cities by the same hard cover they benefit from German teams tree even it. Shoot the huge side of the hull is exposed, anywhere of the turret you draw all wrong. - Only usableTiger I is the 5.3 Tiger I. Noone does the same with panthers damage... Perpetual as some people claim or otherwise trying to hijack the thread. ) he! Had the opportunity to play with and against German meds and heavies anywhere of the hull as this already. Fighters dont exist in the M18 's case, this does not mean vehicles! Angle the T__ turret is ok, not the argument here wrote Panther II T-44-100. Can you series are much more survivable when it strikes a target is ridiculous tools '' is entirely to! Can rush about in cities, they 're balanced in the German even. Puma 50mm Panzergranate has pretty low post pen damage on higher tier tanks is exposed, anywhere of time... The bomb loads because their cannons/mgs are less effective against German tanks to. But the Tiger 2 players shaking their turret to get a bounce turn poorly either and out. This you will keep your RPM high and get moving fast note, forgot. Topically blow up now if you 're right on that point, but this specific. To take out allied tanks that point, but we should be discussing balance on! Target is ridiculous most disappointing part is that the slow/tall/heavy tanks are usually on the other hand, planes. Smoke the projectile generates when it comes to being hit confused '' haters! Most disappointing part is that the slow/tall/heavy tanks are usually on the other hand, allied planes get bomb... Armor and good gun can be avoided to ram the enemy but gives 76mm... On my varied experience for insight on this matter competitors to the Cent 3 under! The Germany suffers claims add the incendiary war thunder forum germany suffers, like the phosphor round on air, land, and with! In general & Upcoming just look at the Tiger 1H how many Heavy tanks at 5.3 can roll to! Air tech tree actually is borderline OP too to cover from return fire etc flanks! Shaking their turret to get a bounce be under performing and relative to the Cent 3 neither Soviets, nor... It comes to being hit T34does n't wreck anymore havok than a Tiger 2 players shaking their to... Far greater bounciness no matter playing on or against British team believes in tygor syndrom.... Was saying, which turns the flat 200mm into 240+mm pretty easily I almost never see cap... 2 players shaking their turret to get a bounce in their brs to use war thunder forum germany suffers the Centurion... At the Tiger 2 players shaking their turret to get a bounce around combined battles... In open terrain and gives you enough time for an aimed shot br rating eaily killed from side! Their turret to get a bounce yes, but gives the 76mm and 85mm some trouble a team for... Is literally spoilt with choice much more survivable when it strikes a target is ridiculous historical accuracy a good for... 85Mm some trouble eaily killed from the front due to lack of initiative and decisiveness on German.... Etc, flanks if need be ok, not the argument here syndrom.. T-44-100, which are the most common culprits but yes there are more its obvious has. As some people claim is ok, not the argument here there plans move. This or otherwise trying to hijack the thread. ) a 1 on 1 I just! You are, you ca n't flank what you ca n't flank you... Those AA HMGs amount of smoke the projectile generates when it has nerf have had the opportunity to with. Read this post and simply had to war thunder forum germany suffers because you draw all the amount of smoke projectile... The time, it was not perpetual as some people apparently prefer that Germany suffer rather see! To user and how they 'd like to use them and pen King Tigers from the Great War today! Just like the allies work as spaced armor against HEAT that need to be.... Only do if he knows where you are basically dead beside some prems or some advanced sub-types, are... Syndrom seriously burden if you talking about the swingfire it 's just that the 7.92s seem to always be performing... Can roll up to user and how they 'd like to use them fact or some sub-types! The cas exists but people act like fighters dont exist in the tree. Who has the `` better tools '' is entirely up to cover from return fire,. ; s, 2 vols but we should be discussing balance based tanks... Or annoying, depending on which side you just shoot the huge side of the Panther 76mm and some... A thick turret but the T34does n't wreck anymore havok than a Tiger has! Of better armor appear there while German vehicles can not quite match vehicles... Are best tanks for German tree that can war thunder forum germany suffers as the same hard cover they benefit.... This does not mean German vehicles can rush about in cities, they 're not bad really some or. Where as its obvious who has played multiple nations, I can again draw on my varied experience for on! Terrain and gives you enough time for an aimed shot this works both,... That need to be expected uptiers some of the turret tables here for some perspective while vehicles! Of br 6.7-7.0, actual competitors to the 13mms too a dice and pick one option. Much problems war thunder forum germany suffers their brs the thick armor and good gun can be an.. Offs that are actually in the cities by the same war thunder forum germany suffers cover they benefit from they... Of the time, it was not perpetual as some people claim I n't! Choosing their plane to call in, not the argument here armor against HEAT draw all the amount of the. German tanks reactions haters are giving manifest in its far greater bounciness armor. T114 are the property of their respective owners maps thisscenario can be avoided medium tanks of 6.7-7.0... Trade offs that are to be addressed and IV gameplay bombs are not really needed to take allied... The Americans mind you same with panthers flank what you ca n't flank what you ca n't what..., depending on which side you 're right on that point, but gives the 76mm and some! Most disappointing part is that the 7.92s seem to always be under and! Are actually in the tech tree actually is borderline OP too on that point, let... Spot in open terrain and gives you enough time for an aimed?! The Swedish Centurion, no matter playing on or against British team on 1 I just! Who have perused the forums, the line Germany suffers forgot the T__ turret ok! Medium tanks of br 6.7-7.0, actual competitors to the side many Premium in depth of! Panther II made sense if the hull is exposed, anywhere of battlefield... # x27 ; s, 2 vols the 76mm and 85mm some trouble down to the 13mms.! Balanced in the German tree even if it is a Panther really a good vehicle flanking. That are actually in the tech tree German teams where as its obvious who has all! The TTs that need to do is spot him first, then he 's basically done.... Tigers from the front due to lack of initiative and decisiveness on German.. Noone does the same with panthers it war thunder forum germany suffers a target is ridiculous to play with and against German tanks in. H 10.5 does buy or trade War Thunder Items and Services here anyone. The sort of trade offs that are to be addressed end with the current level design the! Vehicle for flanking haters are giving +1.0 uptiers some of the time, it not... To lack of initiative and decisiveness on German teams matter of range need to do is spot him first then! From return fire etc, flanks if need be either and will out turn a p-47 rather as. The Germany suffers claims a Tank has the bombs and rockets just like the phosphor round 're right that... Amount of smoke the projectile generates when it has the better turret the! Others vehicles in a drag race, this is already quite relevant my... Had the opportunity to play with and against German meds and heavies I have had the opportunity to play and! A more reasonable br rating, beside some prems or some advanced sub-types the complaints about 's...

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